OBC Reservations – Supreme Court Verdict

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16 Responses to “OBC Reservations – Supreme Court Verdict”

  1. pegasus Says:

    I do not know why we talk about reservation in the first place….
    just go ahead open up 10 more universities and all the problem is solved.

  2. Plato Says:

    I have no problem giving reservations to the people who really need. But to the author of the article, can you please explain why the creamy layer needs any reservation?

  3. Vinaya Singh Says:

    Dear PI,

    The equality is most important pillar of democracy. This means, no differentiation based on caste (last name), religion, rich and poor. Castiesm is very dangerous to integrity of a state. If the government decides to provide any packages to uplifting of needy, it should be made purely on the basis of economic backwardness rather than the caste. If we don’t resolve the castiesm problem, we may never achieve the equality, the one of the pillars of democracy. Reservations are required to make rich and poor equal, but without referencing the word caste. Government can have the reservation policies to help the poor, and if it is required, it can decide to have the quota of reservations divided into categories based on degree of deprivation/underprivilegement (low, medium and highly underprivileged) of the poor. With that, the highly underprivileged can also be provided with free education till their under-graduation. It’s the government responsibility to make everyone equal to make India a developed country. This could be done by helping poor using the tool of reservation to up-bring everyone to equal status. If each and every public of India becomes self sufficient to afford the cost of daily need with able to save for his/her future, ours will automatically become a best country.

    Thanks & Regards,
    Vinaya

  4. Ashok Says:

    Do you believe every SC/ST should get benefit of reservation, irrespective of their status (economic, education or otherwise)? Do you think Mulayam and Mayawati’s kids should get the benefit of SC/ST reservation. Your comment: “The SC/STs are provided reservation because they have suffered for being SC/ST.” is flawed. The whole basis for support should be deprivation not the caste. If the situation permits, a brahmin boy with hardships should get the benefit, as opposed to a SC/ST boy who comes from an affluent background.

  5. Polite Indian Says:

    Sorry for being late in replying as I was away for two weeks.

    @Pegasus,
    If we had unlimited resources, we wouldn’t be facing this problem in the first place.

    @Plato,
    I never maintained that creamy layer needs reservation. In fact I have made a case why they shouldn’t be given reservation here at https://politeindian.wordpress.com/2006/08/09/the-flip-side-of-creamy-layer-2/
    I however feel that if excluding creamy layer cannot be excluded, for reasons unknown to me, they should be given second preference compared to non creamy layer. That is what I state here https://politeindian.wordpress.com/2006/10/24/creamy-layerwhat-about-them/

    @Vinaya,
    I support economic criteria as being the sole criteria but only in a caste-less society. That is what I have said before. However, if the caste identities remain, there is no way we can ignore it while formulating policies for social justice. In our society SC/ST have suffered because of their caste. Hence they are being provided help based on caste. The way it stands today, for every poor backward caste person in the country you can always find an equally poor forward caste person. If economic condition were the sole criteria, the forward class poor will get benefited at the cost of backward caste poor. The backward caste poor will be discriminated forever. Forget poor, even today rich SC/ST are discriminated against everywhere. I have seen it in colleges, workplace and personal dealings.
    Reservations are not required to make rich and poor equal. They are a medium to provide an opportunity to a segment of the society that has traditionally been left out of the mainstream.

    @Ashok,
    I have already told my view above about the creamy layer and economic criteria.
    BTW, how do you think you will measure deprivation?

  6. Vinaya Singh Says:

    Dear Polite India,

    As I have mentioned before, we may want to consider economic backwardness with the degree of deprivation/underpreviledement of a person too. I have proposed a quota of reservations divided into categories based on degree of deprivation/underprivilegement (low, medium and highly underprivileged) of the poor. A person from forward class can never fall in highly underprivileged category. We may come up with some criteria to measure the deprivation. If you want to apply for a job, you need to fill the application form. This form needs a cast certificate, if you want to use the benefit of reservation. Instead of cast certification, we may want to ask for the deprivation certificate. This certificate can be provided by authority considering the applicant’s background and his/her living conditions in the several past years. The authority may use his/her cast background but no mention on paper and until the problem of castiesm is solved. This will not make the forward class poor (privileged) get benefited. Even, those SC/ST certificates (cast certificates) are available to candidates of forward classes too using the corrupt practices.

    Also, my reference to rich and poor is not to make poor to as rich as industrialist but make poor bear day to day needs and become part of middle class families. For example, if we want to make two persons reach a destination at same time and one has bike and other nothing, we may want to arrange a bike for other to compete with the first one. And that’s what I wanted to say. We need reservation for underprivileged but slowly we also want to remove the reference to word cast for benefit of India in log term and achieve equality in its citizen.

    …to be continued
    Thanks & Regards,
    Vinaya

  7. Vinaya Singh Says:

    …to further add to my previous comments, if we are not going to think towards the stopping of dirty politics of secularism and castiesm, I foresee that that day could not be far enough, when people of India may ask further division of India as:
    1. Rajputistan
    2. Brahamanistan
    3. Garibistan
    4. Muslimistan etc.
    and there may erupt the uncontrollable insurgency.

    Thanks & Regards,
    Vinaya

  8. pegasus Says:

    dude if u want the country to continue to grow at 10% p.a. the no of college seats need to grow at 15% p.a. (5% for modernization of work)
    opening up a college once in every decade does not solve the problem or does it?

  9. Ashok Says:

    Deprivation – There are ways. Guess what – National Merit Scholarship, supported by GoI arm has a criteria. Several NGOs (including the one you help out) also have guidelines to define this. My point, SC/ST issue that you make out is not as simple and clear cut. I know a case where a person from so called higher caste runs a Chai Shop (on wheels), had to get his daughter off from school and his son ran the risk of missing out on joining IIT for M. Tech as they didnot have Rs 35,000 (or something like that) for deposit. In my opinion, he is more worthy of the help then kids of, say, an IAS officer who happens to be SC/ST.

  10. Polite Indian Says:

    @Vinaya
    I like the idea of deprivation certificate, that may work out well if the authorities are to implement it honestly. If you look at the Mandal criteria, the caste is one aspect and there are I believe 10 other criteria. If you club these together you can get a deprivation measure. The only thing that Mandal has not done is to grade the different criteria. Based on the 11 criteria by Mandal, one can give a deprivation certificate instead of an OBC certificate. This will change little on ground but will do one good thing and that is to take caste out from the fore front. If the criteria were graded then the creamy layer issue will also get settled.

    @pegasus
    It does not solve the problem. You are right about opening more institutes and universities. The best thing would be to open up the field for private players and then you can see lot of other colleges/universities coming up. But that is aside the reservation issue. What I meant by unlimited resource was that if there were enough seats to absorb every aspirant, there would have been no need for reservations.

    @Ashok,
    I never maintained that the creamy layer should get reservation. Regarding the chai shop, I think the chai-shop owner needed economic assistance more than he needed reservation. If there was a way for him to get the required money, he wouldn’t have faced the problem. The problem of deprivation is not merely economic, it is a huge social problem that in most cases manifests as economic problem. It is not correct to just equate reservation with an economic solution.

  11. Vinaya Singh Says:

    Dear Polite India,

    I agree with you.

    Thanks & Regards,
    Vinaya

  12. pegasus Says:

    > he best thing would be to open up the field for private players and then you can see lot of
    > other colleges/universities coming up.

    It is open dude… haven’t u heard of ISB, Manipal, BITS, Nirma …….
    Arjun Singh is even trying to allow FDI into the area….
    refer the link embedded at the end of the post http://shocking.wordpress.com/2007/02/07/higher-education/

  13. pegasus Says:

    > What I meant by unlimited resource was that if there were enough seats to absorb every
    > aspirant, there would have been no need for reservations.

    yes but indian education system suffers from the curse of Eklavya… unless that is removed from out mentality .. things will not go any further

  14. srikanth varma Says:

    I think the way current reservations were used should be clearly examined before starting with any more reservations.

    First we should try to correct the way it is working.

    I dont think giving reservations for OBC is incorrect,but will they be given to the needy person was the real question?

  15. Polite Indian Reservations based on a Deprivation Certificate and a Deprivation Score « Says:

    […] Certificate and a Deprivation Score May 14th, 2007 — Polite Indian One of the comments on this post is the basis of this […]


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